Member training from September 1st 2025.

In our meeting, I addressed a prevalent lie designed to get people out of the battle: the false equivalency that equates righteous confrontation of evil with ungodly contention. Conspirators sell this lie by twisting scripture and promoting “disagree better” movements to silence us and make us accept wickedness. However, the truth is that we have a heavenly mandate to expose darkness. We see the true example in the Savior, who overthrew the money changers’ tables and called the Pharisees “children of your father the devil,” and in Paul, who publicly withstood Peter to his face for his error. We are to follow this example by judging the situation, reproving a friend with sharpness and then showing an increase of love, while also being unafraid to call out committed enemies for what they are. My goal is to inoculate us against this deception so we can speak boldly on weighty matters and stand united against evil, rather than being silenced by the false idea that we are being contentious.

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TRANSCRIPT
our Father in Heaven as we pause at the end of this day to join together to
discuss things of importance that we really care about. We’re grateful for Ben and
his efforts for this opportunity to be on Zoom, for this country that we live in,
and the things that we understand to be true, to protect our liberty, and pray that
we would have wisdom and thoughtful insight into the things that we can do to
continue the legacy that we have inherited. And we thank you so much for our Savior
and truth in our friendship. And say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. So
this is something that comes up a lot and I want us to be prepared, inoculated
ourselves so we don’t fall for it, but also be in a position that we can help
inoculate others against this lie. It is a lie to,
again, as most of the lies that are out there along the lines of, like, rapture,
cult, and things along those lines, it’s designed to get people out of the battle
because they don’t want to be engaged in things that are wicked. And, of course,
contentiousness is not something anybody wants to be a part of. And so I want to
address that. And so, of course, because this is a part of building our
understanding of the adherence to principles that build free nations and expose the
conspiracy that is behind this lie and to build an effective resistance to that
conspiracy. So the lie is that contention is the same as controversy or
confrontation.
And so that’s, you know, they say to avoid contention as if it is the same and
and then they equate it to anything controversial that’s contentious or if you
confront evil that is contention and so that’s they have this false equivalency
between one thing and another that are not actually related and so that’s that’s the
lie and then how How do they sell the lie? Of course, they will use scripture.
Satan is very good at using scripture to get us to do evil. And that sounds
counterintuitive because how could he use the word of God to get us to do
wickedness? But it is, of course, very, very common. So I wanna give some examples
of scriptures we see in Titus. We are told that to avoid foolish questions,
genealogies and contentions and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and
vain. So they come out and say, you know, we need to avoid contention. And it’s
unprofitable to contend with others. It’s in vain. And we’ve seen Mosiah,
the warning, this is only people beware, lest there shall arise contentions among
you. And you list to obey the evil spirit which was spoken of by my father Mosiah.
So to be aware of something, and it is evil, right, according to evil spirit,
contention is evil. And then we see in Doctrine and Covenants section 10, the Lord
says, “And this I do, that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so
much contention.” Yay. Satan doth stir up the hearts of the people to contention
concerning the points of my doctrine. And in these things they do err, for they do
rest the scriptures and do not understand them. And so because of the ignorance,
they engage in contention, which is evil, as we see in this consistent message
throughout the scriptures. But because what they do is they use the truth and then
they equate it with something that is good, and so therefore they equate good with
evil, to get you to not do good. Okay, how the lie is sold,
we see this, right? God, we’re supposed to give truth followed by a false
equivalency. They say contention is bad, therefore anyone who brings attention to evil
is causing contention because of what’s going on.
So therefore they are as evil as those doing evil. You see that a lot. We see
this, you know, if you’re in Utah, but this is a national, you might be singing in
other states, you have this disagree better movement across the country,
where they are trying to say that if you stand up against evil,
and you call it out for what it is, that you are contentious, and that you need
to not be so contentious and to accept the evil that is going on around you.
From their website Smart Projects, it is to insist on respectful organization.
This is critical. We need to build respectful organizations, even when people don’t
like each other or disagree vehemently about critical matters, we can still insist
that people act with respect. Sadly, a lack of respect is increasingly a problem,
both in business and personal matters. But what they’re saying here is if you call
out evil, you are being disrespectful. And so what they’re trying to say is that
everyone’s ideas are on an equal platform and we need to give all ideas a
legitimate hearing. And If we do not do so, we are disrespectful. And so we need
to see this for what it really is, it is to allow evil and to have it be all
about reason and debate and that there is nothing that is off the table.
And that if we are to say that anything is off the table and we are to assign
motives to individuals with proof, then we are being the bad ones. And so they
silence us by saying that we are disrespectful or contentious.
But the truth is, we see in the scriptures, here’s a picture of the Savior, a very
well -known story that people, if they see this, you know, if this was not the
Savior, they would say that this Jesus guy needs to be more Christ -like because
he’s so contentious. In Matthew we read, “And Jesus went into the temple of God and
cast out all of them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables
of the money changers and the seats of them that sold doves.” And then we see here
in John, the same like giving another angle from the same story,
it says, “And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of
the temple, and the sheep and the oxen and poured out the changers’ money and over
through the tables. And the disciples remembered that it was written, “The zeal of
thine house has eaten me up.”
And so the zeal, right, and this is, if we were to see this today,
you go to the state Capitol and you were to start to just toss over the tables of
the legislators and get a whip and start beating the snot out of the legislators,
you would be seen as an extremist and somebody that was not very, that they did
not disagree well and that they were spoiled and they just wanted to have their
way, and that they needed to disagree better as what would be seen if the exact
same thing was
in our day those the equivalent of these people and If Jesus were to go into the
legislature or other bodies and to do the same exact thing They would say that he
was not being very Christlike and so we need to know the truth We need to see
that what is acute what is what is called one thing is actually Something else good
is called evil and evil is called good and what just replace it if we take out
the word Jesus and we say Carmen went in the temple of God and cost all and cast
them all out and beat them with a whip right that’d be easy to say oh that Carmen
she’s an extremist but it of course it’s the exact same thing because what Jesus
did that’s my mom and so but this is the the follow fly,
right? They say, “Well, yes, here Jesus did that, but he’s the only perfect judge.
Our job is just to love each other and not to actually follow his example.
Our job is to just do, you know, the idea of accept everyone and everyone is the
same. Everyone has a seat at the table. Everyone’s ideas are just as valid as the
others. And so That’s the idea that is presented as a response to look at the
example of Christ. But let’s see if that is that true. Is, are we not supposed to
follow his example or are we not to judge in those ways? The truth is wait and go
the scriptures in Hebrews for the Lord love it for whom the Lord love it he
chasing it and
scourge it every son whom he received it. So the idea that love is acceptance of
everything is a satanic lie. It is going back to the plan of there is no
condemnation. Everyone is accepted. Everyone gets to go to heaven and no matter what.
And but this is obviously what what does the Lord say? He says even he chases,
he corrects, he scourges those that he loves. That’s the truth.
Love is to correct and to bring them into line with the truth.
Love, I mean to allow wickedness, is actually hate because it brings them away from
God and the love of God and so it is actually hatred to do what these people are
saying of accepting everyone. D &C 95, Lord says, “Bearly thus sayeth the Lord into
whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten, that their sins may be forgiven.
For with that chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things
without out of temptation, and I have loved you.” So again, he says, “I love you
by bringing correction to you so that you can be forgiven for those things because
if you do not you have no law you just you keep on doing the same thing over
again and over again because I don’t want to hurt your feelings you can you cannot
be brought into the way and then we look into back into John he says the Lord
says you know if you love me keep my commandments so that’s how we show our love
all right we don’t show love by doing whatever we want. We don’t show love by
allowing others to do whatever they want. We show love to God by keeping His
commandments and encouraging others to keep His commandments by showing them what His
commandments are. That is love. And so what we need to do is we need to start to
understand the real biblical definitions of these words so that we can stop being
sucked into the lies that lead to the chains,
not only the chains of hell, but the chains of tyranny. Because immorality, leaving
the laws of God leads to tyranny.
And then John says, and the Lord says again, “For I have given you an example that
you should do as I have done to you.” So again, we debunk the lie that God is
the only perfect judge and that we are to leave those things to him. He says, “No,
no, I’m the example to follow. What I have done, you should do as well.”
And so we are to follow the example of the Savior in all of the things that he
does.
And again, the truth, you know, how does the Lord talk to those that are engaged
in evil. We see here, and when he’s talking to the Pharisees, he says, “Woe unto
you scribes and Pharisees.” So he’s giving them a warning. He is rebuking them.
“Hippocrates, for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and coolant, and have omitted the
weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith.” So he’s saying himself
that it is judgment, as well as mercy, that is a weightier matter of the law.
These ought ye to have done. He says you ought to have judged and not leave the
other things undone. So he’s not saying leave out these other things. He’s saying
you got to do it all. Ye blind guides which strain adding that and swallow the
camel, woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like unto whiteed
sepulchres which indeed appear beautiful outward but are within full of dead men’s
bones and of all uncleanness. So if you don’t know what a whiteed sepulchre is,
it is one of these, a tomb is where they buried people and it is whitewashed to
make it look pretty and make it look like it’s something but inside of it is dead
people, Right it appears beautiful, but you have these rotting dead corpses and all
of them That’s what he’s saying that they are you guys have an outward appearance,
but inside you are dead
Even so you also out would be appear righteous unto men, but within you’re full of
hypocrisy and iniquity So he’s just ripping these guys a new one. He’s like you
guys are the
He says, “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do
it.” So again, he’s calling them children of hell, right? He is engaging and
identifying who they are. This is another example of where people, politicians today
and those that are, you know, saying that we need to be peacemakers would say that
Jesus, what needs to be more Christ -like because he’s calling the names.
He’s not giving the Pharisees the benefit of the doubt. He’s not allowing them to
have their own views and engage in civil discussion.
No, he’s calling it out. You guys are who you are, and people need to know it so
they don’t listen to you, because we’re not going to give you equal time.
Now Paul, seeing what the Savior said, he is the example. He in the situation with
another apostle. So a friend follows the Savior’s example of calling out improper
behavior and not just letting it stand then for this is I’m gonna read this whole
chapter and but it’s I think it’s the background and the result is important for us
to get this principle so bear with me says then 14 years after I went up again to
Jerusalem with Barnabas and took Titus with me also So put these apostles and I
went up by revelation and communicated under them that gospel Which I preach among
the Gentiles but privately to them which were of reputation That’s by any means I
should run or had run in vain. So had to be done by revelation sent you know went
privately to certain groups of people But neither Titus who was with me being a
Greek was compelled to be circumcised.
And that because of false brethren and the wares brought in who came in privilege
to spy out our liberty which we gave in Christ Jesus that they might bring us into
bondage. So he’s referencing, you know, we’ve got Titus who was not a born Jew and
so he was not circumcised, a birth. And so when he became a Christian you have
what Paul here calls Paul’s brethren. So he’s calling these guys out who are members
of the church and saying that they are not true brethren because they are requiring
him to do something that he’s saying that God no longer requires. To whom we gave
placed by subjection, know not for an hour that the truth of the gospel might
continue with you. But of these who seemed to be somewhat whatsoever they were,
it may get no matter to me. God accepted no man’s person, for they who seemed to
be somewhat in conference added nothing to me. But, counter -wise,
when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the
gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter.
For he that wrought effectively in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision,
the same was mighty in me for the Gentiles. And when James, Cethus,
and John, who seemed to be pillars, received the grace that was given unto me, they
gave to me and barnabas the right hands of fellowship, That we should go under the
heathen and they under the circumcision and so He wasn’t saying to leave those that
were circumcised and don’t preach them but you know, we have two different
circumstances and so two different scenarios where we have Peter who is teaching,
you know those that were Under the original law that they continue to obey that but
those that were not born under that had a different call and commission.
Only they that we should remember the poor, the same which I was born to. But when
Peter was come to Enyaq, I withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed.
So you have one apostle coming to another apostle, you have Paul coming to Peter
and withstood him publicly in front of everyone because he was to be blamed for
requiring a group of people to do something that they were not required to do.
For before that certainly came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles, but when
they were come he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the
circumcision. And the other Jews assembled likewise with him, and so much that
Barnabas also was aired away with his dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked
not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before the
moth. So he’s not like, “Hey, I’m going to correct Peter in private, we’re going to
just handle this amongst ourselves.” He’s like publicly, before everyone, “If thou be
a Jew, live us after the manner of the Gentiles and not as the Jews, why compel
palace now the Gentiles to live as the Jews.
We who are Jews by nature and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is
not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we
have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and
not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be
justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves are also
found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin, God forbid.
Or if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor,
for I, through the law, am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am
crucified with Christ; Nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me,
and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of
God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God,
for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” So this again
will be another example. Why didn’t he just, you know, why would he bring this up?
Why would he make make it a public scene, why would he call out fellow brother on
this idea that Paul felt so strongly about,
following that same example. So the first thing is Paul acts with purpose, right? He
doesn’t react, he responds. He’s not another emotional domino that caves into pressure
of just going along to get along, Paul apparently has a high tolerance for the pain
and discomfort of others. Can you just imagine how that would be for,
you know, it would be difficult for me, I know, that I would be of the mindset of
hey let’s just talk about this off to the side, but he’s like, you know, we need
this was done in public and so it has to be taken care of in public. Number two,
Paul takes a stand and he does so publicly. Peter’s error was in public and so
Paul’s correction is public. In taking the stand, Paul’s primary goal is to bring
clarity, to bring beneath the fear of hypocrisy and pressure in order to reveal the
fundamental issues for all to see. In other words, Paul is willing to talk about
the elephant in the room. no obfuscation, no clouding the issue,
clear and direct speech that cuts to the heart of the matter. Okay? It’s just like,
“Hey, this is the way it is. Let’s get to it and let’s address this and let’s get
over it.” Because as we know, if we don’t, what’s going to happen? We just allow
this to fester. What is the result of letting these things fester?
What this means is that we should look for opportunities to move from submerged
conflict to open conflict. So we don’t want to be people that are passive
aggressive. Submerged or open, there is conflict. And submerged conflict doesn’t do
any good. We need to bring it out in the open, right? Submerged conflict is
frequently waged by subtle emotional and reputational pressure so that is really
something that is what the adversary would do to want to pressure people to act in
a way they just they do a whisper campaign to try and put pressure to people to
to oppose someone but what what we see the example of Christ and Paul is to help
me open right Instead of seeking to persuade with arguments about what is true and
good -wise, submerged conflict brings pressure to conform based on the feelings of an
agreed group. And so you have these examples of individuals that you want to look
good to this group of people. And so you don’t bring these things out because if
you bring it out publicly, you’ll have an open conflict where people can discuss
ideas. But if you do it subversively, then you can just go after certain people
that you know are in agreement with you and try to do the whisper campaign that
way to try and build subversion that way, which caused the problem.
The shift to open conflict involves a candid and frank discussion of the underlying
principles in play. So The third thing that, you know, confronting and confronting
Peter publicly, Paul is risking escalation, but it’s worth it, right? This could
cause problems, this could cause a rift, but what if he doesn’t do it? What he
says is a bigger problem if he doesn’t act than if he brings it out in the open.
So the conflict and confusion, it’s already there. Nothing is gained by papering over
it, by muttering peace, peace, when there’s no peace. It already existed because you
have these two individuals doing two different things, and they were both in
leadership. And so what good does it do you to ignore the elephant in the room?
The corollary of taking responsibility for one’s actions is using to take blame for
the reactions of others, okay? So we don’t want to not do the right thing because
we’re afraid of what others might do. We should not be afraid of man, we are only
to be afraid of God. So being afraid of taking the blame for how others react to
what you do is the same thing as not taking responsibility for your own actions,
okay? So the optical illusion at Antioch would be that Paul caused the conflict with
Peter Now why would it look why would you say that Paul? Why would somebody say
that Paul was the cause of the conflict? Because he was the one that brought it
out. It was maybe it was under the surface It wasn’t seen maybe by everyone and so
he was the one that showed everyone that his conflict existed And so especially in
today’s world if you bring out that hey so -and -so is a number of skull and bones
hey so you know these people are Satan worshipers and they are seeking to destroy
the agency of man that conflict existed these people are already engaged as behavior
me exposing it isn’t causing contention it’s bringing it to the people’s awareness
right the truth is that Paul simply revealed the conflict intentions that were
already present. Paul was not causing contention, he was revealing the contention that
already existed.
And so Peter is the one that was condemned because he was the one doing the wrong
thing in that example.
And so it’s, you know, when we call out people for doing wickedness, we should not
be condemned for calling out the conflict that exists. Them engaging in evil is what
needs to be condemned.
Now we look at, so the fourth thing is Paul speaks differently to different groups,
right? He models both clarity and patience in his confrontation.
He condemns committed heretics like the troublers in Galatia, calling them false
brethren and urging them to even castrate themselves because of the evil that they
were doing. But he also, in other examples, those he helped and he facilitated the
circumcision of someone else. And so dealing with people where they are,
as opposed to, if we’re going to cover it in just a second and not just condemning
someone depending on where they’re at. So it’s important for us to understand that.
So they stood together for truth, right? Christ and Paul are two examples of a
willingness to reveal the conflict that’s already there. They are not creating
contention. What Jesus did to the Pharisees, calling them children of hell,
was not contentious. He was revealing the contention that was already there. When he
threw over the money changers and whipped them, he was not being contentious. He was
revealing the contention that was already there. He showed mercy to those who act
without ignorance though. So that’s the difference is being a judge, right?
We have to judge those that are and knowingly,
and then act accordingly, okay?
And then be unafraid to call out false brethren and children of hell. And also,
right, Paul didn’t accuse Peter of being a false brother. He didn’t accuse Peter of
being a child of hell either, but he also was not afraid to call out what was
wrong. And so even if they are not false brethren, if they’re not conspirators,
if somebody is doing wrong, it is our duties, our loving duty, to help them see
the error of their ways to bring them into line with what is expected of them.
So now what’s the difference? So who are you addressing? I kind of just got into
that a little bit. But right, if we look at these two different scenarios where
individuals, I’m going to show you two different scenarios where individuals are doing
the same exact thing, but one is wrong and one is righteous.
And that might seem confusing and contradictory.
I would say maybe to the spiritually ignorant or immature, but I think it’s very
clear when we see it, okay? Right? And you imagine just a parent,
the child does something wrong and you’re just screaming at them and you’re calling
them a child of health, right? What is that going to do? Is that going to help
the child? Is that going to fix the situation? Of course not. But in this situation
where you have this man being arrested for simply seeing a him in a parking lot,
calling those arresting him child of children of health is a perfectly reasonable
response to their behavior, same exact behavior by the letter,
but completely different scenarios, one being wicked, one being righteous.
Okay, Okay, what’s the difference right? We call out a two -friend not a false
brother, okay? We look the Dr. In Covenants section 121 the Lord says “Reproving the
time with sharpness when moved upon by the Holy Ghost and then showing forth
afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou has reproved lest he esteem thee
to be his enemy.” So like an example of the child or doesn’t have to be just not
just a child, but if you have somebody that is hopefully a friend or an associate
that is not wicked, they are just ignorant, and you call them out of their
ignorance. If you were to scream at them and to just leave at that, they would
esteem you to be as they’re in it, and that would not be helpful, and that would
be inappropriate, that would be contentious,
But at the same time, if you leave them alone in their wickedness,
that is equally bad. And so it is important to reprude even friends, but then
follow that up. If they are friends, you judge them to be a friend and not an
enemy, you follow that chastisement with an increase of love,
so you can bring them back into the path, back to the Savior.
But again, what’s the difference? Is it frivolous? Go back to the scripture that
conspirators will use to try and silence people. Well, what does it really mean?
Right? Avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions and strivings about the
law, where they are unprofitable and vain. So here the contention is with foolish
things, Right, things that are frivolous, things that don’t matter, and we bring
those things up as a point of contention. Right,
yeah, the guy that lives in his mom’s basement, and Independence Day is July 3rd,
not July 4th, if you try to predict, do you even know anything? Just the idea of,
it’s independent, that’s the date of July 3rd or July 4th is inconsequential to the
greater point and to attack someone because they maybe got the name the date you
know exactly just a little bit off and you’re gonna make a big deal about it
that’s that is a addressing a foolish question and it is unprofitable and vain to
make a big deal about something so frivolous now if you want to you know just
bring along and educate and educate someone about the truth. It doesn’t say that you
don’t educate them about the truth. It’s just, you know, you don’t mock them for
not knowing the exact date of when the Declaration of Independence was signed.
We, you know, it just doesn’t help. It is foolish, okay?
So, but we do have a heavenly mandate in these things.
In Ephesians, we read, “And have no fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness,
but rather reproved them. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the
light, for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.” So we see here we have a duty
to expose, to shed light on, works of darkness,
shed light on things that are evil shed light on people that are evil that is a
heavenly mandate that is not contentious in the evil way and Timothy them that sin
rebuke before all that others also may fear. So you when you’re rebuking someone
before all you’re not causing contention you’re helping others to avoid the sin that
these other people are involved in.
You can see in 1 .23, we see that therefore we should waste and wear out our lives
and bring to light all the hidden things of darkness wherein we know them. So
that’s not just a light thing that is something that is heavily engaged in,
over and over and over again to on evil. It means you have to judge the evil and
you have to confront that evil.
And then in Ether, Oroni says, “Ye Gentiles, last days, people on our day, it is
wisdom in God that these things, these conspiracies should be shown unto you, that
thereby ye may repent of your sins, your sin of allowing these murderous combinations
to get above you, and the even that their work of destruction come upon you, even
the sort of the justice, the eternal Godship upon you, to your overthrow of
destruction if we shall allow these things to be. So, not only are we to call them
out, but we are to stop them from happening. And so that is,
how can you do that if calling out evil is contentious?
How can you do that If stopping evil is contentious and evil and something that
we’re not supposed to do So obviously calling out evil calling out wrong doing and
Stopping evil and wrong doing is not contentious is not evil Otherwise we could not
follow the heavenly mandate
So if calling out evil is contentious and evil how can we obey these commandments?
We need to remember to speak boldly on these weighty matters, and don’t fall for
the lives that meant silence you.
Know these principles so that you can make sure that you’re inoculated and inoculate
others against them, and so that we can stand united with as many true brethren as
possible in defense of righteousness against those that are trying to silence us in
calling out the wickedness and the evil in the world under the guise of avoiding
contention
okay I’m
just trying to figure out how to
like stop share. Okay.
So we’ve got a few more minutes
before our time is up. So I wanted to leave up to open to some comments or
questions from anybody that’s come on tonight. Any thoughts anybody else wants to
share with us?
I do want to say something. Okay, go ahead, Sam. I have been in that position
where it’s a super contentious thing there there’s been public officials that have
been doing the wrong thing and I really didn’t have any problems telling them they
were doing the wrong thing because they were lying to the public and so I figured
that I needed to come back at them in public and it you could feel it in the
room. And I did it repeatedly, actually, there was a certain political person that
went a lot of things wrong in our county, and I would just go on purpose to call
him out. And it got to be a thing. And I found that people were appreciative that
somebody would say it. And it did seem contentious, but it wasn’t for me, because I
was just saying what was true. And and they’ve done this and this is incorrect and
this is what the law says or whatever.
And just he would get upset, like there was some, but it was recorded meeting.
And it ended up being like, I couldn’t even go anyplace that people wouldn’t say,
“I saw the meeting, good job.” And I realized, and then I didn’t like to do it at
all, but I Otherwise, other people were counting on me to say something as long as
their situation was happening. – Yep. – Mattered what I did, and still,
I get a lot of comment back about these things, but I realized I wasn’t contentious
at all. I didn’t go there to say, “You dirty dog.” I went to say, “This is what’s
right, “and this is what you’re doing. So people, we can’t let this happen. So I
just want to put that out there that
it’s not contentious to say the truth. And there are people watching and they gain
strength from what you say. And there were other people able to stand up because
they knew I had the back.
Yep. Absolutely. Thank you, Pam. And even if you did say that, you know, Jesus
called them children of health so. I think that could have been said but not on
the recording so.
There you go.
Mark you have your hand up. Yes I have a few points here I’m going to go quickly
through. Mostly I think it’s to expand on what you’ve been presenting this very
important subject. One of the definitions of contentious, some of the definitions are
god can be godly and some And some are not godly, and you’re pointing out some of
the ungodliness of it, and being petty, arguing. But one of the definitions is just
apt to contend. If you’re asserting something, that’s considered contentious in some
of the definitions. The big point is, one of the definitions, or some of the
definitions is debating, argument being argumentative, debating. Debating is a tool
that’s used among so many other tools to arrive at truth, and part of that,
arriving at truth, can be exposing evil. Just to jump back a little bit to Paul
and Peter’s disagreement. Disagreement is, in itself, per se,
it is not evil in any way. It’s how you disagree, and over what you disagree,
pretty mad, but it’s mainly over how in a true mature debate a person has an
opportunity to present their assertions, their arguments. The other person has an
opportunity to rebuttal, then that person that gave the original assertions can rebut
that. You usually go back two or three times so that the case can be made. And
from that kind of debate, truth can be arrived at And Abel, part of that truth,
he exposed evil and exposed godliness. So, but more important point I wanted to make
is, let me look at this definition here one second. So,
and no Webster’s 1828 dictionary. One of the definitions of the fourth one,
he says a content, contention, which is the contentious is derived from is eagerness,
zeal, ardor, the end of endeavor,
and this is the end worthy of most contention to obtain. So acting contentious
depends upon whether it’s evil or not. So in and of the act may not be evil,
and this leads me to the last major point I want to make here and it’s just yeah
real quick so make sure we get everybody in that wants to before we go scripture
revelations three i assume everybody or at least most of us are familiar with it uh
chapter three fifteen and sixteen it reads and this is uh you know uh john uh
below john uh the inspired world of god i know your deeds that you are neither
cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other. So because you were
lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I’m about to spit you out of my mouth.
And that could possibly mean even you will not be saved to damnation.
It’s debatable. But if what he’s saying here is you need to be contentious in
certain ways according to some of the definition of contentiousness.
Thank you, Mark.
Who else has a comment or question? I’d love to hear from as many of you as we
can before we finish up.
I think if I do correct anyone, if I haven’t prayed for that correction to occur
then I’m I’ve left out a lot of power that in getting that change to happen yeah
seeking the Lord’s will and on that situation is important you know sometimes it’s
good to sit on things to make sure you’re acting in an appropriate manner for sure
yeah and I’ve made huge change happen through prayer Yeah,
I mean like beyond what anybody would even believe, but I collected the evidence and
Prayer did it That’s awesome I’m always afraid to Attend with people one of the
reasons is this they might not have the Information of the smarts to understand That
that they’re saying things that they don’t don’t know They on lots of people take
attitude that they know everything and So when you try to discuss things with them,
they have the attitude that you’re
Wrong just because you’re questioning them even though you might be discussing a step
of where they’re concerned with an outcome. It’s really hard to argue with people
and get to the point where you say, “Well, you’re just ignorant.” I called one of
my sons, Ignert,
and then I made a bet with him that if he could find in the Constitution or the
Declaration of Independence, if he could find the word “democracy” in him, I’d give
him a hundred dollars.
He had to pay me fifty for every time I said “Republic.” He’s still holding that
against me. Being very kind, you could have bid him a
Um referring I think to a principle that we also need to understand is not casting
our pearls before swine And that takes judgment. We have to know in you know,
who is swine to not cast pearls before
Talk to some people you know who the swine is Ben and Alan I was gonna make that
same point you were just making Ben But it’s also important most of the time when
I’ve debated you know thousands of thousands of times of people others are listening
so it’s one thing to not cast your pearl before swine but if you have people that
are not swine around you you the argument often needs to be defended because you’re
standing for something godly and if you walk away from that argument you may they
may be led to believe well there is no argument to defending the golly position
you’re taking. So often I’m in groups of 10, 25, even a couple people overhearing
the debate or on the radio. Many times it was extremely important to me to try to
argue the point, even if I’m talking to somebody that I don’t think there’s a
chance, excuse the phrase, chance of hell they’re going to change your position. I’m
doing it for the other people listening. So keep that in mind when you want to
give up a debate. Who else is listening? Not just the person you’re debating with.
Thank you. Alan from Canada. I’ll give you the last commenter.
I’m really glad I made it for this. I made a special effort when you gave kind of
a preview of the topic. I’ve seen many cases in public meetings where somebody had
the courage to say something that might be a little uncomfortable or a call out,
something that wasn’t quite right. And it brings courage to other people that know
that something is right and needs to be changed. And it’s amazing how often you’ll
see people rally to the cause, you know, if you just have somebody who calls out
something that’s wrong or evil or something like that, it really is heartening to
see that play out in front of you in a situation.
So it’s not just the case of loving the people that you’re rebuking or calling out,
but it also is showing love for your Colleagues or your compatriots so that they
feel
Courage in Bearing witness of truth Yep Absolutely,
thank you Alan. It’s a great final comment. Let’s have our closing prayer Rod I
don’t know if you’re available to unmute. Would you be willing to give us our
closing prayer?
Yep, I can do that. Thank you
Heavenly Father, we’re grateful for the training that we’ve had tonight, things we
have to learn about and discuss. We pray that we may have place to bear with us
and all that we do. Please help us to recognize any ways that we might be deceived
in our own lives and to replace those things with truth and help us have the
courage to do the same for others around us and to help to lead others to the
truths that we discover in our own lives.
We’re grateful for the scriptures and for the examples of all those who have gone
before us. We pray that we may be filled with thy spirit and that the way may be
opened before us to accomplish good things in thy name. And we say it’s the name
of Jesus Christ, amen.