Member training from December 1st 2025.

Tonight, Ben led a discussion on the true nature and purpose of government, arguing it is fundamentally an ordinance of God, not a secular invention. He stressed that government is force, like fire, and its only legitimate role is to protect the God-given, unalienable rights of life, liberty, and property by punishing the wicked and defending the good. We analyzed how the Declaration of Independence affirms this by referencing the “laws of nature and of nature’s God,” and concluded that any attempt to secularize government is a wicked act that turns the state into an idol, making it the arbiter of rights instead of their protector. The central takeaway for everyone was the duty to understand these divine principles to recognize when government has become illegitimate and to know when their obligation shifts from obedience to active resistance, such as nullification, interposition, or even the destruction of the tyrannical idol.

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TRANSCRIPT

Heavenly Father, we’re grateful to meet together once again as promoters and defenders
of truth and liberty. We pray for the Holy Ghost to be with us tonight. Help us
to take these things to heart, to take action whatever ways are necessary so that
we can spread the message and bring others into the fold here with us, that we can
begin to increase the knowledge of these things of truth and liberty all across the
land. And we ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. I wanted to bring
those two places you will get them faster than if you order them from our website
except for the ebook and the audiobook of course if you ordered the paperback I
should say the because they have the methods of being able to do quick deliveries
that we don’t have but if you want the ebook or the audio book feel free to do
that at the at our website so just yeah Mark go ahead can you give us the price
of each form of the book yeah so it’s it’s ten dollars roughly for the paperback
and five bucks for the e -book and five bucks for the audio book thank you yep we
we don’t want we want to make this something that’s easy to distribute people don’t
want to have i don’t want to have any reason why somebody’s going to have a a
barrier to entry on this book i believe that it’s a very, very important book for
us to understand its principles.
Obviously, some of the more controversial aspects of the book are not things that we
are implementing as an organization, at least currently.
I’m not going to, but they are important nonetheless. If we don’t understand these
things, then when the time is right, we will not take the correct action,
and not only that, if we don’t understand the principles in this book, we won’t
understand tyranny. We won’t understand liberty. These lays out those principles of
natural law that we’re really going to get into tonight in a way that you don’t
find in a lot of other places. And so, and in this short of a treatise,
Discourses on government by Alderman on Sydney discussed natural law, but
others. And that’s what we want to do. It’s not only to have you get a copy of
these things, but we would love it if you got copies of these things for all of
your friends and family so that we can start to build the understanding of the
principles of natural law.
Next, I want to talk about another promotion that we have going on. If you go to
the website
and you click on the membership tab, We have the first thing is we have a 30 -day
free membership availability, and we also have the ability to give a free gift
membership. And so if you people want to, if you’ve got friends and family that you
know of, that would benefit from being a member of the Tree of Liberty Society,
that is now an available option on the website, or just letting people know your
friends and family know that, hey, you can become a member and you can check it
out for a month to see if it’s something that’s right for you and with no
obligation no charge as long as you cancel within the first 30 days and so that’s
an option for you to be able to share with others or to be able to use yourself
any questions on on that
yes ben is that for the month of December or is it or is it go beyond the month
of December It’ll be for, so for the entire month of December, you can sign up for
that, but it’s 30 days from whenever you sign up. So if you sign up on just, you
know, if somebody signs up on December 31st, they will have it until January 31st.
Does that make sense? So the last day to sign up is December 31st, right? For the
free month, correct.
And then we also have something that’s very beneficial. If you want to switch over
from your monthly membership, we have yearly memberships that can that also save you
money over a monthly membership. And so that helps us to be able to have a little
shot in the arm to be able to do things as well. So I encourage you to check
that out and share it with your friends and family.
Again, what we do every week, we want to not be the reason for perishing because
of our lack of knowledge. I want to encourage you all to find, you know, use our
book list and our video list that we put out and is available in the member
portal, books that you should be reading, videos that you should be watching, that
you can build your knowledge even outside of your, we are weekly trainings. And
then, of course, understanding the context with everything that we talk about is to
build understanding and adherence to the principles that have built free nations,
expose the satanic conspiracy, and build an effective resistance to that conspiracy.
Okay, so what I want to get back to, again, this might seem very basic to all of
us and what is civil government, right? that usually and typically in training we
get into things that are not maybe so basic but again I hope to be able to go
after these things or go over these things from an angle that will be new and that
will help make connections that weren’t made before so that you can be more
effective in teaching others so this quote is government is not reason It is not
eloquence, it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
So this is a quote that is most often attributed to George Washington, but it is
actually not in any of his writings, letters, anything that he wrote or said.
And so, but it’s, I believe that it is a true statement. And that’s why I shared
it, but not with George Washington’s picture next to it because he didn’t actually
say it. So we’re also going to correct some falsehoods, but also realize this is a
true principle. And I use this picture on the left. It’s a picture of the casting
out of Satan and his followers after the war in heaven. And so we have in
Revelations chapter 12 where Michael and his angels fight against Satan and his
followers, and they are cast out of heaven. And so God does use force.
He, you know, he says, you’re not allowed to be here. We have freedom of
association in heaven, and we’re going to use force to cast you out. And so as
evil uses force to enforce its will to be able to protect good, you have to use a
righteous dominion. And so government, good government, bad government, to be able to
enforce those principles, at times it has to use force. And so an example of that
would be like if you’re a murderer, we have to use force to stop you. If you’re
going to hurt somebody or damage their life, liberty, and property, and you won’t
stop on your own, force has to be used. And so it’s important for us to recognize
that force isn’t bad in and of itself, it’s what is force used for? There’s godly
force as much as something that Satan uses.
So along these lines, we have answering the question of what is government. The next
book that we’re going to publish, Manatea Cal, The Downfall of Tyranny. We read,
government is an ordinance of God for the right ordering of a commonwealth or a
government.
That government is an ordinance of God is so clear from the abundant testimony which
the scriptures give there unto, both in the Old and New Testament,
and so universally acknowledged by all sober and rational persons. So this is an
important aspect of government that you don’t really hear people talk about because
they want to be inclusive and they want to be ecumenical. They want to be,
you know, include people that are maybe atheists and whatnot. But I’m going to get
into why it’s important that we don’t. But this is something that it’s universally
acknowledged, she says, by all sober and rational persons, that government is an
ordinance of God. That is essential for us to understand. Because when we leave that
principle, it leads to a problem. Okay. So the political spectrum, as we see here,
is we have on one side, you have total government, and then you have no government.
And if you’ve seen movies like, you know, films like the Making of America, not the
Making America, sorry,
overview of America. It talks about this, how you have on one side you have no
government where you’d have anarchy, and then on the total government side you have
things like fascism, communism. And this is the only really true political spectrum
that you can go after is comparing the power of government. Because, you know,
the conspiracy likes to promote the idea on one side you have fascism and on the
other side you have communism. But there’s no real distinction, right? How is that
one is one right and one is one and the other one’s left? That makes it, it’s not
helpful when you put it in those terms because you’re just like one authoritarian
for another. How is that a different part of the spectrum? And so government power
is really the only helpful spectrum that you can have is total government on one
side and no government on the other. And so Obviously, if government is an ordinance
of God, you know, government is not wicket of itself.
And so you would have these two false dichotomies of total government versus no
government, but both of those would be an abomination of an ordinance of God.
And so we see here the results of too much government power where you have mass
murder. And then on the other side, where you have too little government power,
you have horrors that people’s property aren’t protected as well. And so we have
this principle that too much government or too little government, no one is safe in
their life, liberty, or property. When you’re in either one of those situations, you
are not safe in your life, liberty, or property. And so that’s why God instituted
government as an ordinance was to be able to protect what he gave you,
your life, your liberty, and your property. And so the key,
though, is enough government to protect your life, liberty, and property, but not
enough government to be able to take your life, liberty, and property. That is a
balance that of this, that that is an application of the ordinance that is godly.
And when you do not stick within those bounds, you become, you,
you bastardize or you have a counterfeit to a godly ordinance.
And So going back to Manatee Cal, or the downfall of tyranny, we learn another
important principle of government. It says at the ends or ends of this great
ordinance called government is the glory of God and the good of the people.
And so that’s an important aspect of natural law. It’s an important aspect of what
the ordinance of government is. and so that way we can distill what is government
in its proper role? When has it gone beyond its proper role? And when has it not
lived up to its proper godly role? That’s something that I’ve really gotten away
from is calling it the proper role of government because it makes it a secular
thing and not a godly ordinance. And so we, I believe we need to start referring
to it as the godly role of
Registrates, meaning government officials, are the ministers of God or his servants.
So if it is a godly government, then those that are in service in the government,
they are ministers of God. They are servants of God. And now a servant honoreth his
master, and they being by their office servants of God, are bound in their several
places to seek how they may honor and glorify him. So if you are a legitimate
servant of God in the ordinance of government, your job is to honor your master,
which is God.
Okay, so these offices are servants of God bound in their places to seek to honor
and glorify God. So if you can see in government today, does this person in
government, do they honor God? Do they seek to glorify God? Do they see themselves
as God’s servant? And if they don’t see themselves and they don’t act as that,
then they are acting as a servant for Satan.
whether you’re serving God or you’re serving Satan. And so we can see people in
government today, and when they are not acting in this way, they are acting outside
of the bounds of their authority. Yes, Mark. Do you think it’s accurate to say the
glorification of God? Because that’s a term that’s up for debate, what is glorifying.
But do you think it’s accurate to say, following and complying with God’s law is
glorifying him. That’s the only way you can glorify God, right? Is by obeying him
and following his laws. And so that,
because, yes, I totally agree with you that there are people that believe that there
are different ways to glorify God. And that gives me back to, goes back to the
natural law principle that we’ve talked about many, many times, illustrated by Samuel
Pufendorf of the importance of people being in perfect agreement so that they don’t
clash. And so that’s why we see the clashing that we see in society today is
because we are not united on those principles and that we have to understand and
unite on those principles. Otherwise, we will see the problems that we have today.
And that’s why the Founding Fathers all talked about unifying on those correct
principles.
So, right, so we look at the Declaration of Independence. It lays out principles of
just the right amount of government. What makes it an ordinance of God?
And when is it not an ordinance of God? Okay. It says to assume among the powers
of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of
nature’s God entitle them. Okay. This right here is one of the most misunderstood
concepts, principles that are out there if they’re even claimed to be understood at
all. I’ve been doing this for
25 years. And in the 25 years of doing this,
the amount of people that even pretend to think they know what natural law means is
minimal. And then amongst those that claim to, it is, you know, even smaller.
And so this is something that should be focused on more. And I’m hoping to word it
in a way tonight that will help click for us because it is so misunderstood or not
understood at all. And this,
and I’m going to mention this a little bit later as well, is that when they are
saying this, they are saying the same thing that I said before that government is
an ordinance of God. The Declaration of Independence is saying that government is an
ordinance of God. And so anybody that claims to appreciate the Declaration of
Independence, but doesn’t recognize it as an ordinance of God is either lying or
completely ignorant of what the Declaration of Independence actually says.
So The laws of nature and of nature is God, this is natural law. And,
right, we’ve asked the question before, what is natural law, where it is, is it
written, and who decided it? Okay. So when we think of laws, right,
we think of things that are passed, but gravity would be a natural law. When you
throw a ball up in the air, it’s going to fall down. And so,
but who voted on that? If we all in this call,
we all voted on and we…
that does not change. It doesn’t matter, right? So it’s something that is
unchangeable. No matter what man tries to do, it doesn’t change that law. We can
break ourselves against the laws, but we cannot change the laws. And we can act
outside of the bounds that God has set for the ordinance of government, but now we
are breaking that law. And we will receive the consequences for breaking that law,
which we see now.
Okay. So Cicero lays out his own definition of natural law,
the laws of God. He says, law, therefore, is what distinguishes right and wrong,
derived from nature herself, the most ancient principle of all things to which the
laws of men direct themselves when they impose penalties on the wicked and protect
and defend the good okay so cicero obviously was not um somebody would be considered
a pagan i think by most if not everyone maybe even himself um he says that this
that law is what makes right and wrong and that it uh penalizes the wicked,
and defends the good. And so even though he would not be called a Christian, he
recognizes that true law is an ordinance of God, because that is what decides what
is good and what is wicked. And you can follow what is good and what is, and stay
away from what is wicked, even if you are not a follower of Christ. If you
identify a correct principle and you follow it, you will read the benefits of
following that law. And so he recognized that law is what is eternal in nature,
and it is an ancient thing. It is something that is eternal, and that the laws
themselves impose penalties on wicked and protect and defend good. And so when law
does not penalize wickedness and does not defend good,
you are now no longer in ordinance of God and you are an ordinance of evil and
you will reap the consequences of being an ordinance for evil.
And we can see that in Rome, that’s exactly what happened. As they got away from
this and they became a licentious and wicked society and that government became a
defender of wickedness and a penalizer of goodness, we see how it degraded into the
mess that it was at the very end of the Roman Empire. And so he recognized this
eternal principle. But in it more of a Christian definition,
we find in Algernon Sidney’s discourses on government.
And he says that is not the law of nature a rule which he, meaning God,
has given to things. And the law of man’s nature, which is reason, in emanation of
the divine wisdom, or some footsteps of divine light remaining in us.
So that this is Algernon Sidney attempting to define,
give a definition for natural law. Now, it’s very much in line with what Cicero
said. These are just, he’s saying the same thing, but he’s wording it and he’s
putting it his own words. And so just, but if, and so essentially what we see
there is even though these guys are separated by thousands of years, they still
recognized the same principle because they recognize that they can’t change natural
law. They cannot change the laws of God regarding government. And we’re not even
talking about the laws of God regarding that you read in maybe the law of Moses or
the Ten Commandments. Even the laws of government do utilize many of those laws
because they apply to government, to that ordinance of God. And so even though they
were worded slightly different, they are both the same definition of what natural law
is. And so looking at all these individuals, as they agreed on what natural law is,
I wanted to word it in a way that would be maybe easier for us in our day and
in our vernacular to understand. And so in modern terms, natural law is the
unchanging laws that govern man and the universe and are unchanging, unchangeable,
and are found in the revelations of God and through the reason of man as it
conforms to the revelations. And so that applies. So natural law doesn’t just apply
to government. Natural law does apply to every aspect of our lives,
the things that we might consider science, things that we consider to be civic, the
things that we consider to be, you know, just religious, whatever it is,
it’s what they apply, God’s law applies to all of them. And so it is up to us to
discover through the revelations of God and using our reason in compliance with God’s
word to learn what those laws are regarding the ordinance of governance or whatever
it is, right? If we want a blessing, we have to find the law that it is
predicated upon, and that does not just apply to our personal everyday interactions.
That applies to the ordinance of government.
And so here’s another example of natural law. Sodomy isn’t just wrong because the
scriptures say so. Sodomy doesn’t reproduce the species, which is the reason for
marital relations. Therefore, it is against the laws of nature. It violates natural
law. As we read in the scriptures, right?
The reason we look in Genesis that marriage was for the multiplying and replenishing
the earth. And so when you engage in those relations in a way that does not
multiply and replenish the earth, you are violating the laws of nature, which means
you are violating the laws of nature’s God. And so it’s not just because God said
so, as, as if even if we haven’t come to a point where we understand why something
is so, if God has said so, we can trust it to be true, of course, but we can
look to that there is actually a reason, even if we haven’t discovered the reason,
we can say, okay, God said so, I should obey it. But with even with every single
law that we can find given to us, we can find an actual legitimate real reason for
it. And so it’s important for us to be able to say, okay, that is true, and I
can trust in that, even if I might not understand it. And so when we talk about
the evils of the Sodomite supremacy movement, we can break it down and boil it down
to that in addition to it being a sign and token of the conspiracy, but it is
also a violation of natural law.
So going back to the Declaration of Independence where it talks about it, even
though it doesn’t define natural law, I didn’t say natural law is this, as we saw
from Cistero and from Algernon, Sydney, it references it, it references it,
it references it and gives us a clues to it, okay? And so we read in the
Declaration of Independence that to assume among the powers of the earth, the
separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle
them.
Well, how do we know the laws of nature’s God if we don’t have a way to figure
them out or to learn them, right? And so it’s referring to God in the Declaration
of Independence. That’s where these laws come from and that’s where these positions
and these stations that we come from that that we have originate and so we hold
these because of that we hold these truths to be self -evident that all men are
created equal and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unannable
rights
so we they knew even though they didn’t list what the laws of nature and and of
nature’s God are, they gave you, well, they didn’t define, I’m sorry, they didn’t,
even though they didn’t define what it was, they give you a list of a few things
that are included within it to help you understand. And that you are endowed by,
one of those things is that you are endowed by God with unalienable rights, with
unviolatable rights. Yes, Mark, go Go ahead.
Mark?
Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.
Tell me again the word. Go back one screen. Yeah.
Okay. Unalienable, you substituted another word, and I like that word. Unviolatable.
Unviolatable. Thank you. Yep. Yes, Mark. I’m sorry, I muted myself earlier.
Yeah. Unalienable is a right that you are born with so it is as you say there but
cister what helps me understand this makes it real simple is that cister when he
talked about good law defense good law is the defense of our nature he when you
say that to the average american they’re thinking about the earth they’re thinking
not thinking about man’s nature and what we’re into here the Declaration Independence
is the part of natural law concerning man man’s nature so that’s part of the
overall definition you gave us natural law unchanging laws that govern man and the
universe but we’re not talking about the universe here you know like the
responsibility to be good stewards and things like that we’re talking about man’s
nature.
Do you agree on that or does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
Yep. And that’s that’s why there’s different ordinances, right? And government is one
of those ordinances because it has that separate distinction, that aspect of the laws
of God. Can I add just one more point here that’s in the declaration? Man’s nature
basically the fundamentals for us to exist. And so for us
man’s nature, right to life, liberty, property.
So I’ll leave it at that, but I want to be sure that’s clear that he was talking.
Those rights are essential to man’s nature for man’s existence. Yep. And it’s not
there because he said so. This is, you know, Thomas Jefferson, the author, the main
author of it, it was approved by, of course, all the signers. But these were things
that they understood because they read the Bible. They knew what nature’s God had
revealed, and these were the things that God had said was given by Him to every
one of us. And so that’s important for us to understand that aspect and that they
laid out in there is that
It is God that gave you those unviolatable rights. That’s an essential thing to
understand. I’m sure we’ve all heard it before. Where do rights come from? God or
government. But if we don’t understand that government is an ordinance of God, and
that ordinance of God is to be a servant of God, if we are going to make it
secular and godless, that means it is no longer an ordinance of God,
which means it is now the arbiter of what your rights are, because it is the thing
that gives it to you, as opposed to the thing that protects it as its role as
God’s servant. Mark. Yeah, and the easiest way to understand that is realize that
God gave us our nature. So if God gave us our nature, then we have a
responsibility to protect that being that nature.
And that’s why we need these rights of life, liberty, and property.
Thank you. So the Declaration of Independence, again, it’s a religious document.
We have to understand that. It is something that is laying out what we’ve said
before, and it is in the scriptures. It is saying that these things were from God
to man, that these same men read those things that we’ve referenced before, Algernon
Sidney, that they read Cicero, that they read things like Manatea Kelle, that they
read the scriptures. The scriptures are what the founding fathers in the ratification
meetings in each of the states quoted the most. And in their defense of the
Constitution, the scriptures are what they quoted the most. And so to try and make
the Constitution and try to make the Declaration of Independence and try to make
government secular is completely and utterly wicked. It is trying to displace God and
trying to impose God, the government as God, right? Because you cannot separate God
from legitimate government. When you separate God from government, it is the
government is no longer an ordinance of God. Therefore, it is now ill -legitimate
according to, not just me and not just according to these natural law thinkers,
but according to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They all
recognize that government is an ordinance of God, and therefore to separate God from
government is wickedness. So we go on again to the on again. So look at what is
the law, what is the Declaration of Independence saying, are the things that we can
read and understand from the scriptures. These things are self -evident, they said.
Another word for today would be obvious that our rights come from God, that those
rights are life, some of those rights are life, liberty and property. And that
government was created by the people to protect those rights that were given from
God. It is an ordinance of God to protect these things that God gave us. That
government gets its authority to exist from the people or from God. And that, well,
even if it’s from God, we’d look at the Old Testament. And even with examples of
David or Daniel, where those individuals were made
the king over the people by Revelation, they were still presented to the people for
their approval and for their approbation that they would sustain and support them.
And so the scriptures are clear that government gets the authority from the people
as an ordinance of God.
And so if rights, again, as I’ve said before, come from government, there is no
limit to their power. If government is anything else but an ordinance of God to
protect those things, to be his servant,
to do those things that its role is, is to protect and to defend goodness and to
punish wickedness. There is no limit to its power.
And that is why they want to remove God from government. They become God then.
When they remove God from government, government becomes the idol to be worshipped.
And then government is the distributor of your rights. And then you worship it to
be able to get the things that you want.
We want the ability to travel. We will submit to government and pay them a fine,
a fee to be able to use our property to be able to travel. We want to be able
to feed our families, then we will submit to the requirements of government for the
right to be able to feed our families. And so now government has become the idol
to be worshipped and given tribute to instead of God.
And so when someone tries to secularize government, we have to understand what it is
that they’re actually doing. I hope we’ve laid out a very clear argument for what
is going on when they secularize government. They are attempting to be a law to
themselves, which means they are then trying to take away your liberty. Because
they’re saying that, no, God didn’t give you these things. We did. Because we are
the law.
They are no longer a servant to God, they are a servant to themselves.
They are a law under themselves, and they are getting you to worship them as God.
So
with that, I hope we’ve made more clear what the godly role of government is,
why it’s important for us to understand the origin of these things, what natural law
really is, and so that we can know when it’s not, and what liberty really is,
that we can’t say, because you will have some people in libertarian circles talking
about, you know, the Sodomite supremacy agenda, saying, I don’t have the right to
tell you as an individual who you can love, and so that means government can’t.
But when we understand that government is an ordinance of God and not of man,
then we can understand what government’s role is along those lines of punishing evil
and enforcing that and in being as an arbiter of God’s law,
natural law, and that we are to support righteousness as opposed to,
of course, punishing it. So, Rod, you have a comment.
Yeah, I just wanted to say that it’s really interesting what you’re talking about,
because the, um, I feel like the more wicked we are as a people,
the longer we endure being ruled over by a wicked government. So the more, the more
that we seek to seek after God and seek to do his will, the more discontented will
be with the wicked government. So I think that’s just a little bit telling about
the situation we’re currently in the world, right? Yeah. Well, because, right, we had
this lie, like,
if you grew up with the idea of the 12th article of faith saying that we are
subject to government no matter what, or if you grew up with the idea that Romans
13 says that we are to obey government no matter what, that they’ve, we don’t
realize what government is at that point. And that if it’s an ordinance of God,
that means it’s, that totally flips on its head what its role is, as opposed to
this idea of that it’s an idol to be worshipped.
But, and it gives us to that discontent that you mentioned. I completely agree with
you.
Mark. Yeah, three quick points. The secular world determines what government’s going
to do or not do. There’s no limit to it. There’s nothing to put checks on it to
take us into totalitarianism at the end of that spectrum. Secondly, there’s no
argument that God created a nature and man where the rectum was to be used for
sodomy. Its entire physiology is completely different,
so you can’t argue that point. Nature says that’s an exit, yes. Yeah, and lastly, I
think this is the easiest way to understand what I’ve been trying to say here, and
you’ve been trying to say, are in the old rights that the founding fathers, and
everybody needs to know, it wasn’t just Jefferson, those words weren’t just Jefferson.
All 56 signers of the Declaration and Dependents agreed with those words. They
reviewed every provision in the Declaration before each state voted on a,
you know, no state voted against the Declaration. But in inaneable rights protect
people based on their nature. And if they protect people based on their nature,
thus rights protect our survival nature. And I think that’s
an ordinance of God, then and we want to worship him and not government,
then we will know when it is our job to nullify. We will know when it is our job
to intercede and or to go the ultimate route of Tyrannicide.
And we will know when each of those is appropriate because we are understanding the
ordinance. When we don’t understand that ordinance we again as rod was was alluding
to is we we put up with the idol we obey the idol we worship the idol and as
opposed to saying no i am not going i’m going to do what gideon did and i’m going
to destroy the idols i’m going to do what i what uh yeah was I’m trying to think
it was Isaiah that destroyed destroyed Isaiah
I’m trying to the one that went off in the chariot I’m having a blank
Elijah we will be like Elijah where we destroy the idols and so we will look at
those examples of when you know those those the ordinance of God was changed and
violated and so we will destroy it and in the appropriate manner in the appropriate
time whichever those one of those three that it is and so if we don’t understand
that then we will not nullify we will not interpose and we will simply submit to
the idol and we will worship the idol and so it’s important all around to recognize
what government is so that we know when it’s doing the right thing, because that’s
when we should obey. If it is an ordinance of God, we should obey it, even if we
don’t like what it’s doing. But if it is not acting as the ordinance of God, we
have a duty to behave in another way. Mark, yeah. I don’t know if I ever shared
this before, but I think it’s really important. When you read those words in that
Declaration and Independence that you’re reviewing here about governments instituted to
protect our inelable rights. It doesn’t say government. It says governments.
In other words, all governments. That includes a state government. That includes your
local government. The goal only purpose is their institute to protect these rights
based on our nature. So what that means, that kind of sounds like it disagrees a
little bit with Madison, when Madison said, you know talked about the in the federal
papers enumerated uh rights of of powers are enumerated in the constitution and they
have no right to go beyond that you know the 10th amendment and so forth and uh
but he also talked about the states of being unlimited i’m not sure exactly the
words are used so the the states based on what so in the context i don’t think
they disagree because you have these 13 sovereign nations giving authority to this
new entity, not really a new government, but this new entity that was given
authority to do certain things, whereas the states were then reserved, they didn’t
have the reservations that were limited to the federal government. They had to, so
like the federal government doesn’t have unlimited powers even to act as a servant
of God. it’s it even because that, the full power to act as a servant of God was
reserved to the states. Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. The states are
separate sovereigns. Right. What Jefferson, those founders wrote in the Declaration of
Independence says all governments are limited to that purpose, that rule. So there is
a bit of a conflict there. And I side with the signer. I side with the signers of
the corporate. I don’t think there’s really that big of the conflict because the
context is the separate roles. But, I mean, as a general rule, a real government,
because the federal government was not a government over the states. And so it
didn’t apply to that context of what we read in the department. Well, remember what
I said at first. He said, they said governments. He didn’t say the federal
government. He said all, you know, it’s implicit that they’re talking about all
governments, state, local, other countries, everything. Well, sure, but context,
I think, matters as well. So let’s go ahead and close up. I’ll have a closing
prayer. I hope that wording things in this way, kind of shifting the paradigm a
little bit, has helped to
make some light bulbs go off to say have some aha moments about what is the real
godly role of government and what is government and so that we can start to defend
correct principles and not only that ourselves but to then teach those principles to
others so I hope that we’ve helped in that tonight and we’ll have a closing prayer
Simon would you give that for us Father and heaven thank you so much for this day
thank you for thy goodness unto us please watch over and protect us as we go our
separate ways this evening please bless us with thy spirit please comfort us and how
to defend our liberties show us how we may do better where we are lacking please
bless our families wherever they are that they will be inspired.